RAPTURE- 2ND COMING- 2 EVENTS?
https://ccoutreach87.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/6-10-15-second-coming-rapture.zip
I was thinking about starting a new study and covering 1st, 2nd Thessalonians.
Instead I decided to just copy a few passages about the 2nd coming of Christ and talk about that.
I’m not covering everything you can on the subject .
My purpose in this short study is for you to see the simple- plain language when the New Testament covers this subject.
Many good men- scholars- do read these passages as speaking about separate events.
And this study gets long [convoluted in my mind] and digresses into different details [like the last trumpet sounding- or other different details of the same event].
And some have developed an intricate ‘system’ of how these same passages- that in my mind speak of the same event- are actually talking about 2 different events-
One called ‘The Second Coming’ and another- called ‘The Rapture’.
And to justify this belief- they will teach ‘there is only one Second Coming- but it’s in 2 parts’.
Yikes!
To me- that means you are saying there are 2!
Others say ‘just like in the Old Testament they did not realize the prophets were speaking about 2 comings of Jesus [his birth- and the Second coming- true].
So in the New Testament- there are also ‘2’ comings [meaning a Rapture- then later- a Second Coming].
Now- in the simple field of Logic- these good men do not realize that this in itself is a contradciton.
Why?
Because they themselves are admitting that in the Old Testament there are ‘2’ events spoken about [the first- and the SECOND] meaning there are not THREE.
So- if you actually have a separate Rapture event spoken about in the New Testament- well- that makes 3 events [Jesus birth- the Rapture- then the Second Coming].
Understand- When you read the few chapters posted below-
Paul is penning these letters to these churches- who were actually doubting the resurrection of the Body [Corinthians]-
Or fearing that their dead loved ones would be left out of the hope of Jesus’ return [Thessalonians].
So he is comforting them by saying when Jesus returns- their dead relatives will be raised- and they too would ‘meet the Lord in the air’.
Now- I do believe this event will happen someday- it will happen when Christ returns.
The dead will be raised- those that ‘have done good’ [believers] to the ‘resurrection of life’-
Those that ‘have done evil’ –will face judgment.
Those who are alive at this event- the second coming- or if you want to say the term ‘Rapture’ you can.
We too will 'be caught up’ to meet the Lord in the air.
But- as I read these passages- we don’t go away for 7 years [which you see in the very popular End Time movies of our day].
But we THEN are changed- have our resurrection bodies- and yes-
There will be a new heaven and earth- all tears wiped away-
And we will be with Christ and our loved ones- in actual resurrected bodies- for eternity.
To read these passages- and to ‘see’ 2 different events- taking place over 7 years-
It’s not ‘heresy’ per se- but it would be very confusing for the early church- who were getting these letters-
Separately- to make any sense out of Paul using the same language- and talking about the same themes [we will be raised from the dead- don’t fear that your loved ones will miss out- Jesus will return- we will get new bodies- etc.]
And then to think he is actually talking about 2 different events-
I mean these young churches were questioning the resurrection from the dead- wondering what happened to their dead relatives.
See?
Paul is correcting them about some fundamental Christian beliefs- and for him to be ‘introducing’ a 2 staged ‘2nd coming’ – well- that’s just doesn’t make sense to me.
As a student of Theology- I am familiar with both sides of this issue [Dispensationalism versus Historic view].
In this post I’m giving you the view that the early church held- and the view that most Christians hold today.
In the past I covered how the Rapture view came about [1800’s- John Darby- few others].
And I could go over all that again.
But- for this short study- I just want you- yourself- to read these chapters.
Does it sound like the Apostle Paul is speaking about 2 different events to you?
Below I’m pasting some of the main sections [not all] that talk about the 2nd Coming-
I want you to see the context.
Over the years as I simply read these passages- it was obvious to me that some who teach these verses- are actually missing the main reason why Paul brings up the 2nd coming- and the resurrection of the dead.
In the Thessalonians portion- some say Paul is speaking about 2 different events [the Rapture- a secret coming- 1 Thess. chapter 4. Then the ‘day of the Lord’ and the 2nd coming- a whole other event].
If you simply read it- he is saying ‘the Second coming- the Day of the Lord- it is still yet to come- and your loved ones will not be forgotten’ [1st Thessalonians].
Then- in 2nd Thessalonians- it seems as there might have been a fake letter- written to them- claiming to be from Paul.
H says ‘don’t be disturbed- either by word- OR A SO CALLED LETTER FROM US’.
Don’t be disturbed that the Day of the Lord [or the Second coming] ‘is at hand’- or already happened.
Then in chapter 2 he goes on to talk about the Wicked one being revealed 1st [antichrist- which we have much to say about in the future].
Paul is basically covering the same ground in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians.
He taught them that Jesus will come back- and our dead loved ones will not miss out on the future kingdom- they too will be raised from the dead- and we will all be together with the Lord.
Then in 2nd Thessalonians he is saying ‘wait- don’t get fooled- again. Jesus did not come back yet- some stuff must happen first’.
Those who teach the Rapture have Paul talking about 2 different events here.
One- a secret Rapture- then- the 2nd coming.
Remember- this church was obviously having some serious doctrinal problems.
And it would make no sense for them to have received these 2 letters [not in a book form- like the bible we have today].
And to ‘figure out’ that Paul is talking about 2 different events- using the same basic language that he uses in his letters to the other churches- about the 2nd coming of Christ.
And for them to have discerned that this was a whole new ‘secret’ thing God revealed to Paul-
Well- it simply makes no sense to me.
As you read the passages below- see the language Jesus himself uses ‘after the days of the tribulation- THEN shall the sign of the coming of the son of man be’-
Jesus says the angels will be sent forth- gather together God’s elect-
All the language about the 2nd coming seems to be speaking about one event in the New Testament [trumpets- etc.].
Those who each the Rapture- as a secret 2nd coming- they ‘see’ the trumpet language [which is used about all the events- even those who say they are 2 different ones].
As ‘another trumpet’ and so on.
There are pro and con verses that both sides use in this debate.
I think the main point is- the language used about the 2nd coming- or ‘the Rapture’ is obviously speaking about the same thing.
So- we start from there- then- if you develop an End Time view of things- no matter how you see all the other future events to come-
You don’t ‘add’ another- secret- 2nd coming in there-
To me- that’s going too far.
1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
2Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
1Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
2Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
evelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. [NOTE- in these passages I’m quoting ones that say ‘Jesus comes back with the saints- from heaven’- This verse can refer to Angels- Christians- or both. Now- I don’t want to be demeaning here- but a big part of this discussion revolves around ‘see- Jesus comes back with the saints- therefore- there must be a Rapture- or how else did they get there’! Look- read the context of the verses I’m pasting- in Paul’s letters he’s dealing with the fear that Dead Christians might be forgotten about- so- for him to say ‘Jesus comes back WITH THEM’ Well- that fits the whole theme- Not of another Rapture- apart from the 2nd Coming- but when he returns- he brings them back- in short- to answer the question ‘How did those saints get there’- They DIED.]
Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Revelation 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not [Jesus is actually warning against those who say he is in the ‘secret chambers’ or a ‘secret coming’. Paul- in 2nd Thess. Does the same thing ‘don’t let anyone trick you into thinking he already came back’- sort of a secret event].
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark [some teach that the Ark here is a symbol of the Rapture- that like Noah was in the Ark- so the Christians are taken ‘out of the earth’ for 7 years. The Ark is a type of Christ- not an earthly escape. So- you escape Gods coming wrath- by being in Christ. Also- the Ark did not take Noah and his family out of the earth- contrary- they stayed in the earth- and miraculously escaped the judgment].
Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
NOTE- I added these verses in because those who teach the Rapture see these verses talking about different events-
For instance the passages they see as the Rapture- and not the Second Coming- Talk about Jesus coming- and to the unbeliever that ‘day will be like a thief coming’-
Jesus will ‘gather together the elect’-
And we will be ‘taken to him’.
In these verses- the exact same language is used- as in the ‘other’ portions of the bible- that speak about the Second Coming.
So- for those who see these as 2 different events- they have ways of making them fit-
But- the plain language- like Jesus saying ‘AFTER the tribulation of those days- THEN shall the sign of the coming of the Son of Man be seen’-
In normal language- Jesus is saying the 2nd coming happens after the tribulation of those days.
So- the Rapture guys say ‘No- Jesus is not talking about the Rapture- but the Second coming’.
Yet- the same language is used ‘he will gather the elect- some will go- some will be ‘left behind’.
So- my conclusion is Jesus will indeed come back- there will be a resurrection from the dead.
We will indeed be ‘caught up’ to meet the Lord in the air [but we don’t go into hiding for 7 years- while nobody knows where we are].
There will be a resurrection of the unjust-
There will be a judgment of both the just and unjust.
Those that have ‘done good’ will be ‘raised to life’-
Those that have done evil will be raised to face judgment.
All this will indeed happen- but there is only one more coming of Christ.
The passage in 1st Thess. Chapter 4 is indeed the 2nd coming of Christ.
The same event Jesus himself is talking about in the gospels.
The same event we read about in 1st Corinthians 15.
And the same event we read about in the book of Revelation.
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
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